Banning Diesels, Idiot Or Does He Have Good Points?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by FTZ HAIC, Oct 3, 2015.

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  1. FTZ HAIC Staff Member Oregon Chapter Founding Member

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a26891/the-end-of-diesel/

    I'm not posting this with any thoughts about whether I disagree or agree. Rather, I knew with remarks such as his, it could potentially be very polarizing. There are many people who are huge fans of diesels, likewise there are many who despise them.

    So, the question is... does he make good points, or has he been dropped on his head?
     
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  2. Paul Masley Founding Member

    The top of his head is flat from being dropped so many times.
     
    1970something likes this.
  3. Campspringsjohn Founding Member

    The moron doesn't talk about improperly tuned gas motors which can be found in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cars! He's making claims about diesels without taking into account what gas powered vehicles do. One thing that surprised me was that he did not mention the idiots with the smoke stacks, blowing smoke all over the place. I know it's those idiots that got the pot stirring here in the U.S. I was always told that a gas motor would kill you quicker than a diesel.
     
  4. OldjunkFords Oregon Chapter Founding Member

    I'm not a fan of diesels, but they most definitely have their place...............
    The guy is a couple beers short of a half-rack.
     
    1970something likes this.
  5. 56panelford TOTM Winner Founding Member Canadian Chapter

    All I can say is I hate travelling behind one and pass it the first chance I get, they stink. Its mostly the young guys around here that like spooling up the turbo and spitting out the black soot because they think it's cool. Don't think they should be banned as they do have there place.
     
  6. Campspringsjohn Founding Member

    Won't deny diesels do have a worse smell. (nothing smells like a 7.3 startup on a cold winter day!) But my understanding of the harmful exhaust that comes from diesels is not as bad as that of a gas motor. Now that was what I was told many years ago before emissions stuff was even on most vehicles, and back when diesel had a very high sulfur content. The authors opinion came from a trip to some European visit he made. Wonder what kind of diesel they use over there? I know my trucks do put out some black smoke under heavy acceleration, but I notice a difference between summer and winter fuel. Around here, winter fuel is mixed with kerosene, (don't know how much it is cut with it) which is a cleaner fuel than diesel.

    If you get around a new truck today, their emission system is very thorough. You will not smell it, or see it. I was amazed at how clean the exhaust is coming from them. Mileage and power is sacrificed to achieve that, but that discussion should be left for a different thread.
     
  7. FTZ HAIC Staff Member Oregon Chapter Founding Member

    I think it's not the gaseous emissions from diesel which are the biggest issue, the particulates are known to cause asthma and other lung issues with children, and some adults. That's what the particulate filter and burner was all about starting with the 6.4L.
     
  8. pirahnah3 Founding Member

    I think that people need to calm down on emissions and let the groups develop the technology as appropriate to make things better.

    Look at VW, they have awesome cars, make a great diesel motor but there was no way to give the people EVERYTHING they wanted, the power, the efficiency, AND meeting all the specs.

    If they let some people catch up or *shudder* actually look at some of these garage mechanics that are doing great things instead of just buying up the patten and hidding it in the R & D room.
     
  9. 56panelford TOTM Winner Founding Member Canadian Chapter

    ^-#Well said Jim.
     
  10. Kajtek1 Founding Member

    I think lot of people need 25 years to update their mind about new technology.
    I did drive "famous" converted 350 Oldsmobile diesel. I drove 1980's VW diesel pickup with whooping 44 hp.
    But now I drive 320 HP diesel dually that I am racing BMWs with .
    Diesels of last 20 years are totally different animals.
    After driving diesel sedans for years, I bought for family car gasoline wagon.
    Now I am pretty annoyed that 230HP gasoline engine has to hunt the gears, where older 174HP diesel was pulling on top gear like a train.
    Coming to pollution -- why gasoline engines had to get their CATs back in 1960, while diesels were consider clean enough to go without them till 2000's ?
     
  11. FTZ HAIC Staff Member Oregon Chapter Founding Member

    When catalytic converters where first installed there were very few diesel passenger vehicles on the road, they were such a small part of the overall air pollution problem back when major cities could have brown skies. Part of the problem too, is it's much harder to get a catalytic converter hot enough to function, especially on a non-turbo diesel.

    I believe some passenger car diesels have had particulate filters of sorts since the mid-80s, it wasn't until the last decade they hit bigger trucks. Detroit has taught the world to look at HP, when what really matters is torque for street use. Sure, you can get high horse power by winding the engine up, but at cruising RPMs is where having torque really shines, and makes the car/truck respond to more throttle. Since diesels build their torque low down due to longer stroke and higher compression they can feel so strong low down in the RPMs. At least that's how I understand it works.
     
  12. Kajtek1 Founding Member

    There were lot of diesel-powered semi-trucks back in 1960's ;)
    The power/torque relation is hard to understand even for technical people.
    I always advise to look at power curve.
    Let's compare 2 engines rated for 300HP.
    The gasoline engine will have 300 HP at 5000 rpm, while at 2000 rpm only 100 hp (for example)
    The diesel engine will have 300HP at 3500 rpm, but at 2000 rpm pumps 200 hp.
    So what happen when you cruise at 2000 rpm and want to accelerate for passing?
    Gasoline engine barely have power to spare at that rpm, so when you press kick down, it will take the time to drop a gear or 2 and finally when it gets gearing that will rev 4000 + rpm - it will go.
    Diesel engine with much more power available at 2000 rpm will start pulling on instant without hesitation and gear change.
    Its been fact for a generation in Europe, where the same cars can be equipped with V6 gasoline or 4-cylinder diesel.
    When gasoline V6 will beat diesel at green light, when it comes to 60-80 mph acceleration all the gasser can do is smell diesel exhaust.
     
  13. FTZ HAIC Staff Member Oregon Chapter Founding Member

    True, but larger trucks have always been exempted for longer time periods than passenger cars. The F100... Ford came out with the F150 which was a "heavy half ton" to get around catalytic converter and other emission requirements. But eventually the law changed to include those, but not 3/4 ton trucks. Then it changed to include those too, and so on.
     
  14. Greywolf Vet Zone Staff Alumni Founding Member

    In a nutshell I would have to say Jack Baruth is a misinformed douchebag, or that he has drawn totally ridiculous conclusions from an absence of complete information. But that is of course my own opinion...

    Curiously - that jerkoff was rattling on about taking a trip to Spain just to drive a gas engine Miata around the hills for no particular reason. I wonder what he thought the airliner he got there inside of was burning all the way across the Atlantic and back?

    Jet fuel is highly refined kerosene. Kerosene is highly refined diesel. QED: He paid to burn his own share of diesel just to go joyriding in the hills, you can't have your cake and poop on it too!

    Then again - he made a statement: "Diesel engines are traditionally weaker..." (snip)
    ~That right there is an intelligence fail, if I ever saw one (see: Torque -vs- HP, above)

    Next intelligence fail: "...a gasoline powered Kenworth..." (?)
    Anyone ever follow a gas engine powered moving van through the mountains? Those are the ones that are doing 20 MPH by the time they hit the actual grade of the mountain pass, after downshifting all the way to the bottom of their two-speed rear axles if they have them...

    Gas engine big truck - Yeah right!


    And this fool writes for a Car magazine? Why???

    Something else that just about slays me is this paragraph:
    "What other reason is there to love fuel oil? Certainly not the characteristics of the chemical itself. It's slippery, it stinks to high heaven, it doesn't evaporate. In the winter it's fussy and in the summer the fumes are miserable. In 2006, I drove a Mercedes E320 CDI diesel around the country for the Cannonball One Lap and at no time whatsoever did I not wish that I was in an E320 gasoline-powered Mercedes. Particularly not when I was dodging lot lizards and tidepools of rainbow-slick spilled diesel in order to get to the commercial counter at the Pilot station so I could stand for ten minutes behind some leviathan trucker in sweat-stained overalls who wanted to play the lottery one dollar at a time."

    Jackass! It's a TRUCKSTOP! Deal with it fer krissakezzz... :rofl:anim
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  15. Kajtek1 Founding Member

    Jet fuel is diesel thinned for lower freezing point.
    I used it in my vehicles just fine, just add some 2-cycle oil for better lubrication.
    I drove both cars quoted above.
    The gasoline E320 at high speeds will make 300 miles on the tank.
    The E320cdi will make 500 miles on the same tank filled with diesel.
    With cdi engine and being at 1/8 of the tank, when I did not like gas station, or their prices, I just drove to next one 130 miles away.
     
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