Veterans Zone FEMALE VETERANS - what about them?

Discussion in 'Veterans Zone' started by Greywolf, May 12, 2015.

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  1. FTZ Peggy Staff Member Vet Zone Founding Member

    Agreed!

    Are we talking about front line pull the trigger types or flying an air to ground combat mission type? What about when the inevitable happens and the female in combat gets captured? Torture is one thing, but men at least don't have to worry about winding up pregnant. Should we offer some sort of birth control for those being deployed? And speaking of pregnant, what do we do regarding the point in someone's life when they decide to become pregnant?

    Do we kick them out of the infantry when they decide to get pregnant? Tell them they can no longer fly combat missions? How pregnant is the cut off date?

    Being pregnant and having a child is why I did not do a full TOD. Mind you that was a couple decades ago, and I'm not sure of changes of guidelines. I was married, and it was unexpected. I his the pregnancy as long as I could, but when there was an outbreak of measles and we were all required to be vaccinated, the truth was revealed because I refused to take the vaccine. I was given two options. 1: discharge and 2. Reassignment AND losing my rights of guardianship of the child. Since my spouse at the time was still deciding whether he WANTED to be a father - little late now don't you think? - there was no way in hell I was going to give up my child!

    As far as "when" a woman is "pregnant enough" this is a strong moral and ethical question.


    Current physical fitness standards in the military are different for men and women. Should that be changed or upheld for women who want to get into combat? Remember standards were established based on women not being in combat.

    I refused to do "pansy a$$" PT. Although I did the drills and tests under applicable standards. I worked out doing everything my brothers did. Back then we were told to be Ladies first and Sailors second. If women are not expected to perform the same standards (physically and otherwise) we should not be offered the same roles. Period.

    When I got out and had my daughter, I poured concrete for the DOT, sometimes 14 hour days and 7day weeks. I did everything from brick masonry to installing manhole covers, and I shoveled a heck of a lot of sand and rock! I never asked for special treatment. Never expected anyone to do the "heavy lifting". I ended up as a foreman. (Although I did have to wear a pink hard hat since I didn't want to see everybody's wank every time somebody needed to pee.) Got some funny stories there.

    So across the board in all roles, if you can't pass the test, you don't get the privilege. Gender, race, religion handicap, etc. I don't know why this country decided that determination and perseverance should be replaced with lowering standards so life is fair. Personally, I think its a cop out!
     
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  2. KW5413 Vet Zone Texas Chapter Founding Member

    I'll bet Ken ducks when he pisses you off. But, then again, he probably works real hard at not doing that in the first place.

    :sweating:anim
     
  3. macman_85602

    This country changed to lowering the standards so everybody could be included which has decresed the strength of our millitary and businesses. This is why it is now so hard to fire the under performers at work because they will whine to the union or NLRB that they were treated unfairly.

    This mentality is being ingrained into kids today. The kid who can't hit or throw HAS to be included on the baseball team or schools teaching to the lowest common denominator instead of to the highest because it will make 1 child feel bad. That kid should try to better themselfs and not think that they are being picked on because they can't learn somthing.

    I see this as the Dumming down of America....
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
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  4. FTZ Peggy Staff Member Vet Zone Founding Member

    My daughter, a double major special education teacher, was just denied a promised position because the school system is promoting minority teachers. Things like this are more racist/discriminatory than ever.
     
  5. macman_85602

    In that lie the problem. Race and gender should have nothing to do with any kind of promotion. If you can't achieve a promotion by your merits then you shouldn't get one.

    Gender is the same way, male of female should not matter, if you work hard and you QUALIFY for the position then you should get it.

    There should be no question if a woman is allowed in a position as long as she meets the requirements for said position. Say being a fighter pilot, if one of the requirements is not to be pregnant and she gets pregnant then she is out but the rules apply to men and women, no discrimination, that is the requirement.

    But this country is becoming more and more entitled, everybody wants everything handed to them. We have had Affirmative action for so long that people believe that they should not have to work for what they have, but it should be handed to them because they are a "minority". Like i said before Gender and race should have nothing to do with any kind of placement, be it job, Education, or military, as long as you have the correct credentials and the ability to perform the job or position you are seeking then you should get it, race and gender should not even be considered.

    (Yes I ramble)
     
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  6. Greywolf Vet Zone Staff Alumni Founding Member

    A curious point that I haven't seen come up so far is a factoid that I have from listening to race car fans over the years - and it is that females tend to be smaller in stature, and have quicker reaction times over all, which boils down to women being gifted racing drivers - and PILOTS.

    A couple of times my friends and I have kicked around the idea of putting one of their daughters behind the wheel of a race car just to see what happened, mainly my friend across the street who seems to have a never ending supply or radical Mustangs.

    However, his daughter became a medical tech. Dental, I believe. You can't argue the cash factor. Any medical or dental profession has to make more folding green than racing...
     
  7. FTZ Peggy Staff Member Vet Zone Founding Member

    Something I have always wanted to do is closed course driving. It's in my blood. Mom was in the Powderpuff Dirt track series in the 60's. Dad made her quit when she had a wreck and he realized raising 4 kids was a job he didn't want to do solo. When Ken and I rode his touring bike through the north Georgia mountains, I was the one screaming "faster faster" when the sparks were flying off the foot pegs. Ah well....
     
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  8. Seabiscuit Volunteer Moderator Vet Zone Vet Zone Leader Oregon Chapter Founding Member

    We'd have to check with Danica. Haven't seen her in the winners circle this year, didn't she dump her Chiropractor (probably very good income) hubby for a race car driver........don't know Dutch, not looking too good for that theory...
    In the Police Department, high speed "board drags" were the order of the day after sunset. The sparks were phenominal! Especially after I got some special extra strong steel they got in at the shops. We made up a bunch of foot board skid wedges from it. Result, they lasted forever and put out a really bright white shower of sparks.:clap:anim :rofl:anim
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
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  9. F350-6 Vet Zone Texas Chapter Founding Member

    So we agree on the easy stuff like some women are capable and PT standards should not be altered, but what about the hard questions like "pregnant enough"? I'm sure our opinions now are different than they were decades ago, but it's still a tricky question.

    Hiding a pregnancy is natural if you don't want to lose your job, but when the lives of others (including the unborn) are at stake, when and how do you draw the line?

    And more importantly, why don't you have a vet banner under your name? Do I need to file a complaint with the admin here or something?:)
     
  10. MIL1ION Canadian Chapter

    In about 1999..maybe later....I had the honour of meeting,paying for her lunch, talking with this pride of canada military combat female.

    Canada was shocked..but because of my hour with her and another soldier I had great pride for her when I found out she was silenced.
    Nichola exhibited great character in our uniform and her bravery was recognized. I was glad know her.


    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichola_Goddard


    I met her at the Westbrook Mall in Calgary.

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/02/02/new-calgary-school-named-after-fallen-soldier-nichola-goddard
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  11. FTZ Peggy Staff Member Vet Zone Founding Member

    I had to file a request with my CO
     
  12. FTZ Peggy Staff Member Vet Zone Founding Member

    Here's the rub, do we take a woman's job because she's pregnant? What if she's a chemical engineer? Do nurses have to give up their jobs because of the possibility if contagious disease? It's a woman's choice, right? She can smoke six packs a day, drink a quart of gin, and expose herself to a lot of dangers and not be arrested. Where's the line? I could talk for days on this one... I will say that I was wrong to withhold knowledge of my pregnancy for precisely the reasons you mentioned. It's one of the bittersweet times of my life. I learned a lot, but at cost that was far too high. Regret is a cold dark shadow. But, my daughter is AMAZING!!

    I also wonder about the men out there who leave families at home, knowing there are problems and sometimes dangers for their kids, but are obligated to go. I often wonder if instead of signing away our kids, we could have been offered some kind of advocacy or representation as service personnel. Do the guys have to give up custody of their kids to serve? I can't imagine the helplessness a father or mother feels when they know there's something going on and someone else is in control. Especially someone who can't be trusted. Knowing you won't be home for another five months or whatever, and other than requesting an emergency leave - which may or may not be given - you're stuck! I mean, you give your life in service to your country, many times to MAKE your kids and families safe, only to find out some a**hole is screwing your family up while you're gone! What do you do?
     
  13. Greywolf Vet Zone Staff Alumni Founding Member

    What CAN you do? About three years before I retired I knew the game at home had changed when I found that the areas worst dope head had been invited to live at my house by my estranged spouse. Small wonder that when I finally got out there was $100,000.oo of indebtedness run up on my cards, the equity in my house stripped completely out, holes were punched in the interior walls, etc, etc...

    But - a thing like that doesn't happen without the other half being a willing agent. By Thanksgiving that year she had packed her bags and gone to live with yet another worthless creep. It took five years to get all of the abandoned junk out of my place, nine years to get a handle on the finances.

    I had two months of accumulated leave on the books when I retired, but USS John C. Stennis was making ready for a cruise, and I was regarded as indispensable. I ended up selling back over a months worth of leave and came ashore after one last work up cruise with two weeks to wrap up everything I had going on in San Diego before bailing for the home front (what was left of it) at warp factor nine.

    But my contract clearly stated that the needs of the NAVY came first.
     
  14. XDM45 Vet Zone Founding Member

    Good perspectives in this thread, all........

    Peggy. I like the perspective you bring to the table.

    It's easy to forget there are female PTSD sufferers out there too.

    Never been in the 'dunny' myself (sorry....shamelessly stealing a word from one of my favorite authors.....John Ringo.....variable meaning......'donnybrook'........)......but there's stresses other than combat that cause it. My Dad......2 Vietnam tours in a recon F-4 flying over North Vietnam........told me more than once he doesn't know how in the HELL the nurses handled taking care of the wounded and dying day after day after day........That takes a special kind of something........For that matter I knew one. It ruined her relationship with her kids and it still affects her (haven't seen her in a few years though.....).

    My knee-jerk response about women on the sharp end......at least regarding GROUND warfare......is 'no'. Yeah.....I know.....there ARE women out there who are physically bad-ass.......but. 'No'. Sorry. If for no other reason than the change in behavior the male members will inevitably show. When speaking of something deadly and intimate like ground combat, why buy trouble? Why do what is completely unnecessary to do? It's societal pressure pushing this.........not necessity.
     
  15. XDM45 Vet Zone Founding Member

    How did you get it?

    When I first saw the banner, I thought maybe it was a Chapter you had to sign up for or something.........:cool:
     
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